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Tonight, a face-to-face confrontation on unidentified flying objects.

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If they exist at all, do they come from outer space?

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Or is belief in flying saucers simply a new form of religious faith?

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If UFOs do come from outer space, as one of our debaters contends, is the U.S. Air Force

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keeping the matter secret?

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If so, why?

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Or is this simply another example of mass self-deception based on flimsy or faulty evidence?

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On this program, Major Donald E. Kehoe, author of Aliens from Space, opposes Colonel William

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T. Coleman, former publicity chief of the U.S. Air Force.

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From the Yorkville Studio Theater in downtown Toronto on the great debate.

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Resolves that unidentified flying objects from outer space exist.

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Your Chairman, P. Eberton.

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Well, almost everybody in this audience thinks that UFOs from outer space exist.

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The vote is 190 for the affirmative, to 32 for the negative.

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And are they enough, Major Kehoe, that makes your job the harder one because you have fewer

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minds to change.

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And that is the purpose of a debate.

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It might be harder for another reason.

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All right.

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We'll give you four minutes.

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We'll give your opponent six, and we'll give you two for a bottle, and then we'll go on

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with the more informal aspects of our program.

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So would you start the clock please for the affirmative and Major Donald Kehoe?

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So over 15 years, my honorable opponent has known that UFOs are alien spaceships.

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Justice what thought about, he was piloting an Air Force bomber with two crewmen aboard,

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when a metallic circular craft came swiftly toward them.

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Now I will have to give Colonel Coleman credit.

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In spite of possible danger, he went to full power and shot after it, thinking he might

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get a closer look, but within a few seconds it was out of range.

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Now this is something which should affect a man quite a bit when he's had such an experience,

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but it really backfired because he was, sometime after that, appointed one of the leading UFO

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officers in Air Force headquarters.

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That means he was assigned to explain away cases, and some of them didn't require much

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because they were fakes anyway.

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But back at this, there was other evidence that he learned after he became a UFO officer.

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He learned about General Nathan Twining's evaluation.

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Lieutenant General Nathan Twining is a great figure in World War II.

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He was then head of the Air Materiel Command, and using almost 100 experts on this command,

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he evaluated it.

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The conclusion, the UFOs were real, they were not illusions.

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The majority of reports described flying discs, apparently metallic.

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They were flat on the bottom, domed on top, and they gave indications of intelligent control,

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either direct or remote, by the way they tried to evade approaching aircraft.

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Now this is of the approach, but he recommended another full-scale scientific evaluation,

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and the following year these scientists came up with a top secret conclusion.

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It was called an Estimated Situation, that the UFOs generally reported, and there were

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facts that they discarded those.

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The genuine cases represented interplanetary spaceships.

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The chairman of this group, one of the chief of staff to make it available to the public,

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General Bannonberg, who was then chief of staff said no, he was afraid it would cause

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trouble.

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And there was one more.

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Major Dewey Fournier, monitor for the entire project as headquarters, came out with a still

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bigger evaluation after the great flap of 52.

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Same conclusion, interplanetary spaceships and the public should be told.

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Now since then there have been many, many developments.

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The situation has grown worse because over 50% of the people in the United States, and

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I think in Canada, believe the UFOs are real, and by implication they don't believe the

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official explanations.

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But what makes it more serious is this, there have been a number of serious cases, double

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serious.

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Anyway, one of the worst cases that occurred over Buffalo, Texas, when a brand of airliner,

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a Lockheed Electra, was passing over the town of Buffalo, and people on the ground saw a

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sort of a ready-to-sclow, and shortly after that a flash of some kind.

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There was a terrific light, and the airliner disintegrated with everyone on board.

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The vice president of BANF, who investigated this along with the civil air night board,

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said it was the most horrible crash he'd ever investigated.

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And he said, the force that caused this came from outside.

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There was no bomb inside the airliner.

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So what I have been concerned about is that a sudden evaluation would startle people who

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firmly believed the Air Force was telling the truth.

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If it all came out at one time, about the secret developments and the many cases, and

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some of them by top Air Force pilots, who've been sort of ridiculed like other people,

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it might have a very bad after-effect.

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And I think the public should be gradually prepared, pressing the statement home.

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Thank you, Major Keel.

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Willow.

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Thank you.

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In six minutes for Colonel Coleman and the Negative.

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Mr. Chairman, honorable opponent, mystery of man's origin has intrigued him throughout

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recorded history.

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He has puzzled and theorized over the question of where, when, and how he began.

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That man, like a detective arriving at the scene of a crime, at the long, long period

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following the event, is so put to arrive at conclusions that would stand up in court.

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The equal fascination in Wounder today is the question of whether there is life on other

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worlds.

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I support Dr. Sagan's theory that perhaps in our galaxy there are something on the order

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of 100,000 to a million planets in this galaxy that perhaps have some form of intelligent

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life.

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Moreover, my colleague would have you believe that this intelligent life is in fact in existence

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and that it has visited the earth, and very recently, perhaps even now.

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The question we are exploring tonight, do they visit us or do they not?

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Yes or no?

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The general public seemed to demand a yes or no answer.

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And that is the question I say cannot be answered, yes or no.

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In the first place, you can't say no because you can't prove a negative hypothesis.

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And that leaves us with only the yes.

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It was precisely that attitude of which the United States Air Force approached Project

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Blue Book, and for more, that is just the way we pursued our investigations, objectively,

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systematically, thoroughly, and carefully.

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Yet with imagination, open minds.

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During that 20 years, we found no evidence, not an iota, that would prove or tend to prove

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that manned extraterrestrial vehicles under intelligent control were visiting the planet

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earth.

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None.

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We found so far nothing to indicate any technology beyond our current state of the art or present-day

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knowledge.

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The Earth Force was given the responsibility to investigate UFO sightings, and this mission

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was too foal.

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And my honorable opponent knows exactly what that mission was.

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Was the national security being threatened?

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Air defense.

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National security threat.

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Was our national security being threatened?

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And the second reason?

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Do whatever possible to preclude technological surprise, whether it be from this planet or

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some other.

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Our purpose was not to determine whether life existed elsewhere in the universe, and I might

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add, contrary to reports, the United States Air Force has never denied the existence of

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extraterrestrial intelligent life.

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The question was not in our provenance.

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We have been, and I have been accused of being less than truthful with the public regarding

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UFO reports.

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I can only tell you that the charge is totally denied by the Air Force and by me.

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After the cessation of the Project Blue Book, we were left with a residue of some 700 cases.

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This residue, as long as there is one, leaves a problem, and that's what we're discussing

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tonight.

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These few hundred cases included a number of puzzling sightings.

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These are the ones that are once the strangest and the most credible.

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It was easier, though, to identify high strangeness than high credibility.

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UFO investigation is very fascinating.

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It's a fascinating, interesting subject.

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The problem was often all too slippery.

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For all the evidence we discovered and all that presented to us out of the thousands

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of cases, what we found was either originated here on this planet or was of natural origin

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outside the planet.

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If we take present knowledge and present technology, we must conclude that we have not received

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extraterrestrial visitors, at least in recent times.

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There was no evidence to support the visitation theory.

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If one was to believe he's being visited, then he has to do it strictly on faith.

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Thank you.

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Thank you, Colonel Coleman.

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Two minutes for a bottle.

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Start the clock for Major Keel.

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I was as bad a skeptic as you were, maybe worse, because I went around kidding my

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pilot friends in the Marine Corps.

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That was before Admiral Farny, who was then head of Navy Guided Missiles, showed me two

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hundred or more reports by Navy Marine Corps pilots, carrier pilots, and carrier officers,

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and some of them were close encounters, daylight, showing exactly what was described by pointing.

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Incidentally, Colonel, you did not mention the three evaluations.

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I have one of them.

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The photos started one of them with me.

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I'll show it to you later if you haven't seen it.

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I also saw the 1948 top secret evaluation.

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You mentioned that one when we met at Cape Kennedy, but anyway, I've seen that in Four

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and A also.

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And his was secret and is still being kept as an unfinished document.

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So I don't know why you evade those particular documents, because those are the belt foundation.

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Now, in twenty years, you say there's no evidence at all.

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Well, that's when we get to a general exchange here.

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I can bring up some cases I would like to have you mention.

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You say there were only seven hundred cases.

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Dr. Heineck stated there were over three thousand when he left the Air Force that were completely

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unexplained.

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Nobody ever answered that either.

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Now, there are quite a number of serious cases that do come to mind.

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The F-89 interceptor had chased an object out over Lake Superior.

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And with big-triple radar, they saw the plane and the UFO merged on the scope, and then

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they vanished.

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There were about five different answers put out on that.

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Donald Cape Kennedy, when I asked you about that case, and you said the Air Force explanation

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was that it was a Canadian airliner that got off course.

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And I said, well, I have copies of many of your letters.

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In fact, a whole stack of them, original and photocopies.

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And I said, well, Colonel, we looked into that, and the Canadian Airlines denied completely

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that they were anywhere near it.

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And then, shortly after that, you switched to the Royal Canadian Air Force.

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We contacted the Chief of Staff of the Royal Canadian Air Force, and he denied there was

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anything to it at all because we had nothing there.

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Thank you, Major Kehoe.

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You'll get a chance later to argue with Colonel Coleman.

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In fact, in a moment, you'll be doing just that in a face-to-face confrontation when

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we come back from our usual break.

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We'll see you in a moment.

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Some background on our debaters.

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Major Donald E. Kehoe is a writer who has been writing about flying saucers for 25 years.

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He's made 400 appearances on television and radio, written five books on the subject,

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his latest is called Aliens from Space, The Real Story of Unidentified Flying Objects.

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He was named national director of the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomenon

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some years ago, a position he held until 1970.

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He still remains on the board of that institution.

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Colonel William Coleman has just retired as Chief Public Information Officer of the

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United States Air Force, as opposed to he held for five and a half years.

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He's a former World War II combat pilot with 15 missions.

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He was recalled for the Korean War and the Air Force and stayed in after that.

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He's written two books on the use of animals and medical and space research.

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He writes science fiction stories.

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He just finished a screenplay.

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He's working on a novel.

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I've got a couple of questions for each of you gentlemen.

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You keep talking about top secret documents Major Keough, but you apparently have them

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all.

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One in your briefcase and the rest in your hand.

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How can they be top secret if you have these answers to them?

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Well, there is a rule that when the 12 year period is over, documents have to be declassified

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unless a strong reason is presented that there was a danger of security.

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A number of these things were released before then to me, but they were stamp declassified.

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I'm not naming anybody, but I have some very good friends in the Pentagon, including Air

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Force.

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Well, how can you say that the US Air Force is hiding something if they're declassifying

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the very documents that you say they're hiding?

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The Freedom of Information committee aided by NICAP, the organization you mentioned,

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kept that there for about a year and we finally got out projects one to twelve, which is an

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Air Force, a combination of documents and all the sightings in there stamp either secret

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or confidential.

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Well, of course, to release them, they had to stamp declassified.

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All those years, these things were being hidden.

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I knew some of them, but I couldn't use them.

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All right, a question or two for you, Colonel Coleman.

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You did not answer Major Keough's point that General Twining of the Chief of Staff himself

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after a lengthy investigation, according to your opponent, said that unidentified flying

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objects were real.

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Well, this was prior to General Twining becoming Chief of Staff and later Chairman of the Joint

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Chief of Staff.

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This was when he was head of the Air Force Logistics Command and the project.

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Since they handled the R&D or Research and Development functioned the Air Force, he headed

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that aspect up when he was a Lieutenant General.

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And yes, this was in the beginning of the project and our first concern, of course, was air

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defense.

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Therefore, there was classification early on in the program when it was Project Grudge,

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but later as we began to learn more, we began to look at a few thousand cases, things became

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declassified.

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Well, now, did Quoting say or did he not say there was this thing as unidentified flying

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objects from outer space?

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He said we must...

236
00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:45,160
By intelligence, yes.

237
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,320
We must be alert to that possibility.

238
00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:48,320
He didn't say there were.

239
00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:49,320
No.

240
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:50,320
He said we must be alert to that possibility.

241
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:51,320
That's right.

242
00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:52,320
You said...

243
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:53,320
You said they were real.

244
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:54,320
I didn't say you were real.

245
00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,520
Well, now, unidentified flying objects are very real.

246
00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,200
They're flying objects that are unidentified and remain so.

247
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:00,200
But he said...

248
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:04,640
Objects that were circular, metallic, and right on the bottom, dome on top, which is

249
00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,640
the typical explanation of Project Sign.

250
00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,640
You remember there what they came out with?

251
00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:16,080
Well, Donald, that was 25 years ago now.

252
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:17,080
And yes, there were a lot of...

253
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:18,360
And there were mistakes made.

254
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:19,920
We had the wrong people in the project.

255
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:20,920
Later on, we were finding...

256
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:21,920
You were finding the wrong person?

257
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:22,920
No, no, no.

258
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:23,920
Wait a minute.

259
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:24,920
Let's put it in...

260
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:25,920
Okay.

261
00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:26,920
And put it in the time.

262
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,440
We hired Dr. Heineck later and brought him into the program as a consultant.

263
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,360
I personally called him and assigned him to certain cases.

264
00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:40,120
Those that were high strangeness, high credibility, we thought, these are the cases that we had

265
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:41,120
Heineck work on.

266
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:42,120
And we consulted with him.

267
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:43,120
Well, there's another point.

268
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:47,440
As far as the 3,000 cases that he mentioned, there are still 700 some on.

269
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,680
3,000, perhaps, in Heineck's mind.

270
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,360
But that's not an official Air Force point of view.

271
00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:58,920
In December of 69, when the Air Force said that he'd quit everything, closed investigation,

272
00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,920
everything was done, then there wasn't a single case that remained unexplained.

273
00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:03,920
Now, that was really...

274
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:04,920
That's not true.

275
00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:05,920
We never made such a statement.

276
00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:06,920
It's all over there.

277
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:11,360
Well, I'll be glad to provide you copies of our official statement, which clearly show

278
00:17:11,360 --> 00:17:14,040
that we have about 730 odd cases.

279
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:19,200
Well, I'll launch the case now that the Air Force wrote Vice President Humphrey when he

280
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,440
was vice president, and said, now the single unexplained case left.

281
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:23,440
Same thing to Senator Birch Bay.

282
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,880
And a lot of others got that kind of letter.

283
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:31,600
Now, somebody in the Department of Legislative Liaison was asleep or something wrong there,

284
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,600
and they're supposed to help Congress and give them the facts.

285
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,320
Colonel, I'm still trying to figure out one thing.

286
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:42,240
Major Kieh was at you saw, a metallic circular spacecraft.

287
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:50,360
Yes, I was flying in a Mitchell bomber from South Florida to a base in Mississippi.

288
00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:55,760
About two o'clock on a cloudless Sunday afternoon around two o'clock, I spotted a strange object

289
00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:01,480
at what I would guess to be around 20,000 feet and some several miles in front of me

290
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,640
and to the right.

291
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,280
I punched my copilot, and I said, do you see what I see?

292
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,800
And he said, yes, I believe it's a reflection on their windscreen.

293
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,640
I said, I don't think so.

294
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:13,120
Start making a turn to the left.

295
00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:14,400
Give me about one needle width.

296
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:19,280
And of course, the object moved, and I said, well, it's for real.

297
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:20,960
And we're gaining on it.

298
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:25,200
That was strange because we were at a lower altitude and a slower machine.

299
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:31,000
And then the object began to descend in front of us, and so I decided then to give chase.

300
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:36,400
I did go up to maximum military continuous power, and then we started down.

301
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:42,920
I was cruising at that time at about 10,000 feet, and we did get very close to it.

302
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:49,000
And the sighting lasted for several minutes, not a few seconds, and we did gain on it.

303
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,800
And it just didn't change your mind regarding the...

304
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,320
No, I saw an object that I could not identify.

305
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,880
I was not then in research and development.

306
00:18:57,880 --> 00:18:59,760
It could have been a test vehicle out of England.

307
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,760
I doubt it, based upon knowledge that I could...

308
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:04,040
Are you an idea of what it was?

309
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:09,400
I have no idea, and it disappeared on me, and I had several good observers.

310
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,920
I had representatives of Lockheed Aircraft on board and representatives of the Allison

311
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:19,920
Indian Division of General Motors, plus my own copilot, who was a flight engineer, and

312
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,120
of course my own enlisted flight engineer.

313
00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:24,640
We had no cameras, unfortunately.

314
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:29,800
Incidentally, the camera is the best tool to pursue this subject with.

315
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:34,680
Unless you get some of these people that get on the ground and hang something up on a wire

316
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:35,680
and take a shot of it.

317
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:40,680
Well, we have about four rooms full of photographs, like that, and second-builders, light sheds,

318
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:41,680
and all that.

319
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:42,680
We have many of them.

320
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:43,680
You can spot them almost immediately.

321
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:48,920
All right, but if the camera is the best evidence, what photographic evidence, if any, is there,

322
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:50,640
but there are objects found in space?

323
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:55,840
Let's say that's just one aspect of evidence, Mr. Burton.

324
00:19:55,840 --> 00:20:01,440
The camera is a good tool because it's so readily available to everyone.

325
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:02,680
What about the...

326
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:04,180
But are there...

327
00:20:04,180 --> 00:20:11,080
Let me ask you if the Air Force examined photographs of so-called flying saucers in other space.

328
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:15,560
We have two exposures of one unidentified flying object.

329
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,040
We know it's a large object.

330
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:24,040
It is dense, that is, it has mass, but we are not able to identify it under any known

331
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:25,040
technology.

332
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:26,040
McMindle?

333
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:31,200
But that doesn't mean that it came from Bernard Starr or Alpha Centauri.

334
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:32,700
We just haven't unidentified objects.

335
00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:38,680
I don't know whether you're referring to the McMindle case, but that was one where an object

336
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,960
was said to have a man's wife, a farm woman's wife named Trent.

337
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:42,960
This is the Mendel case.

338
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:43,960
That was what you were talking about?

339
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:44,960
Yes.

340
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:45,960
Right.

341
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:47,480
They kept quiet about for a while.

342
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,600
They got pictures of it, and they showed this typical UFO thing with a sort of a dome

343
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:52,600
on the top.

344
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,280
When I first saw it, I thought it was one of those phony rigged things.

345
00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:00,120
Later on, several people I knew, including a man in a life magazine and others who went

346
00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:01,600
out there, said, I don't know.

347
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,480
I think there may be something to it.

348
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:08,320
That is one of the cases that was given to the Colorado University study.

349
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:15,520
For those of you who don't know, the Air Force paid $523,000 to the University of Colorado

350
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:16,520
for it.

351
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:17,520
$550,000.

352
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:18,520
They jumped it up.

353
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:23,360
They got that without being in the record because they copied the contract I got.

354
00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:26,000
Let's not argue about a mere $50,000.

355
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:34,160
Anyway, this thing came in, and there's a scientist there who is an expert photographer.

356
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:38,400
He went up there and spent about two weeks or more checking at all the angles.

357
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:44,480
You read his report, it's about nine pages in the Condon document, and he ends up and

358
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,000
said, for all intents and purposes, they saw exactly what they said.

359
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,000
He said, everything measures.

360
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,520
He said, the photogram, the metric analysis and all that was perfect.

361
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,920
That's what it was in.

362
00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:00,600
Now, Condon rushed that thing through because Nixon was coming up, and they thought he was

363
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:01,600
going to be elected.

364
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:08,000
Nixon were like that ever since that fight over his being a full communist.

365
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,600
They hurried the thing through so that in case he was elected, that he wouldn't be coming

366
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:12,600
in stopping it.

367
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:13,600
Well, I don't wish to participate in the doctor.

368
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:18,680
I don't want to be in Dr. Condon's background because I'm talking about the fact that he's

369
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,600
dead, Hitler's dead too, but I couldn't detest him less.

370
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:29,280
Anyway, on this photograph, in the first two sections, which you're all at Condon wrote,

371
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,280
I've been told by people who are on the project, it says in there that this picture is bought

372
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:37,280
forward, but it was too fuzzy and begged for photogrammetric analysis.

373
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:42,080
And here's his own specialist out there telling exactly what he did, and it was specific and

374
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:43,080
short.

375
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:44,080
I think we'll get off the picture.

376
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,640
I've also seen pictures of Sasquatches and sea serpents.

377
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,680
And what you're seeing, Ninja Keo, is it, am I right?

378
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,080
There's only one picture available that anybody agrees on.

379
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,280
No, there's one other, but it's kind of vague.

380
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:58,280
There are two.

381
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,280
There's a gun camera, and therefore, it's a gun camera picture.

382
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:05,280
But you clearly don't face your belief in this on photographs.

383
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:06,280
No, no, no, no, no.

384
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:12,280
Only on evidence by reliable people, it was double checked, and there's usually some physical

385
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:13,280
proof.

386
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,720
Let me say a word just about evidence.

387
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:22,480
Any good prosecuting attorney will tell you that the best evidence in the world is circumstantial

388
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:29,240
evidence, provided that the chain of evidence is unbroken.

389
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:38,360
And throughout all of your reports, Mr. Keoh, I find circumstantial evidence and vague, wide

390
00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:39,520
gaps in it.

391
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:40,880
You have no evidence.

392
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,720
The Congress asked you to submit to evidence.

393
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:44,720
You have nothing to submit.

394
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:45,720
I did submit.

395
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,880
So it has to be done on the basis of faith.

396
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:50,360
I sent that to the McCormick.

397
00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:53,960
He was there, and he looked at it, and he said that he thought that it was very serious

398
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:59,840
and strong, and he passed it on and got a special project started, but then the top

399
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:05,360
man in that committee died and that killed it all.

400
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:13,800
Now, people are always passing away, just like you and I will someday.

401
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,160
I want to bring up some, you said circumstantial evidence.

402
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:17,160
I will tell you this.

403
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:21,360
There have been more people convicted of murder, except lately when nobody gets convicted

404
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:28,000
of anything, because of evidence that wasn't as strong as some of these UFO cases.

405
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,880
Now, I'll ask you about this one.

406
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:32,080
Colonel Donald J.M.

407
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:37,120
Blake'sley, he was the number one Air Corps ace in World War II.

408
00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:38,760
He was also a wing commander.

409
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:43,080
He was over in Japan, and he was making a routine flight, and he got a call from the

410
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:49,200
Brown Radar, and they said two, the powers of two other Air Force planes had radiodine

411
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:50,720
and said there was strange object.

412
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:56,120
So he climbed up, came onto the clouds, and here was this thing which had rotating beams

413
00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:57,360
of light.

414
00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:00,320
And so he tried to go near it, and it pulled away.

415
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:06,200
And he started down again, and they called him and said it was back, and gave him the

416
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:07,200
direction.

417
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,800
And when he walked through that time, he caught off his lights and closed in at full power.

418
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,240
And the thing disappeared in about three seconds.

419
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:19,480
Now this was an official Air Force report that was declassified out of Wright Pat, sent

420
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:25,320
by Rupel, was declassified again in Air Force intelligence, and I was given, there's a detailed

421
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:26,320
report of the whole thing.

422
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,520
Are you familiar with this Colonel Colm?

423
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:29,520
Just vaguely.

424
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:35,200
My only comment here that you mentioned pilots, incidentally you credited me with 15 combat

425
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:36,960
missions, I had 155.

426
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:37,960
I'm sorry, yes.

427
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:38,960
I've seen many strange things.

428
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:47,480
I wouldn't want them to change my records.

429
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:53,080
And I wouldn't want them to have to go back and make all those up.

430
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:58,800
Pilots are not experts on astronomical or meteorological phenomena.

431
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:00,960
I don't care how qualified they are.

432
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,840
I've got 30-some odd college credit hours and meteorology.

433
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,040
I am not an expert on meteorological phenomena.

434
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:13,000
I know a lot about it, but I haven't seen everything yet.

435
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,000
Same way with astronomy.

436
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,240
I've been an amateur astronomer.

437
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,720
I've been looking through the glass ever since I was a small child.

438
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,000
And yet I have not seen all there is to see.

439
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,960
There's one question I think we've got to hear up before we go to our audience, Colonel

440
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:27,960
Colm.

441
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:34,400
Major Keough specifically accused the U.S. Air Force of a cover-up, which if it were

442
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,560
revealed would be a greater cover-up than a Watergate cover-up, a cover-up of enormous

443
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:39,560
proportions.

444
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:40,560
And I think...

445
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:41,560
Well, I'd like to hear how much you would like to hear about it.

446
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:42,560
I can submit.

447
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:44,560
I'd give him names and evidence there if you want it.

448
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,720
I mean Air Force people have said it.

449
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:48,000
We would appreciate the evidence.

450
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,320
We've been asking you for it for years, but all we get is the citing reports.

451
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,040
We want evidence that we can get.

452
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:55,040
Let me answer the question.

453
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,160
I'm the evidence of the cover-up.

454
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:58,160
All right.

455
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,080
There is no cover-up.

456
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,080
All of the material is declassified.

457
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:08,320
It's open to any serious researcher or reporter that cares to go to the Air Force Archives.

458
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:14,240
We've been isolated blue-book so that we have ready access to it, even though it's located

459
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:15,800
in a Class B vault.

460
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,200
Now the vault happens to be a building.

461
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:19,440
We have to house it somewhere.

462
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:25,360
But the serious researcher can go in there and spend months reading all of the reports

463
00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:27,360
and let him make his own conclusions.

464
00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:32,200
I was the guy that opened up blue-book files to reporters, invited them down there.

465
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:37,000
I even extended the invitation to you to go out to blue-book and help yourself.

466
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,000
There is nothing classified.

467
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:42,120
Now they said I couldn't go.

468
00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:43,120
That's not true.

469
00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:46,600
The assistant to the secretary, I've got his letter and he said it's because I said there

470
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:47,600
was a cover-up I couldn't go to.

471
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,080
I spoke to the secretary because I was the security review authority for the Air Force.

472
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:51,080
I'll show you.

473
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,840
And I had the authority to grant you in or not grant you in.

474
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,840
Well, it didn't get to you apparently.

475
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,640
You've never been in there?

476
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,640
I haven't been on a right pat in the UFOs.

477
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:01,640
He says you can go in.

478
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:02,640
There's one thing that...

479
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:03,640
I'll just tell Max.

480
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,640
Mr. Barton, there's one thing that he did not answer.

481
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,080
I'd like you to finish that.

482
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:10,760
I do want to finish one of the points.

483
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,440
I'd like you to finish just the brakes, we said.

484
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:13,440
Let me finish this.

485
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:14,440
You didn't...

486
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:15,440
You couldn't open that.

487
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:16,440
So I wanted to tell you where we do cover-up.

488
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,240
We've got one minute and then we're going to go to our audience.

489
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:20,240
One minute for you.

490
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:21,240
Okay.

491
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:22,240
I'm going to give you...

492
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:23,240
I've got a man.

493
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:24,760
This will take less than that.

494
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:25,760
Good.

495
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,760
We've developed certain aircraft which we had to keep undercover.

496
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:33,960
And I'll give you a very recent example, the A11 SR-71, that our craft was developed totally

497
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:34,960
in secrecy.

498
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,000
Yes, it flew and it was spotted by people.

499
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,920
We knew who they were that saw it because they reported it.

500
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,000
We immediately debriefed them and had them sign a little paper.

501
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:45,000
Saying it's not flying through.

502
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,400
And that was for a good reason because we jumped out technologically wise.

503
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:49,400
They go ahead of the Soviets.

504
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:50,400
All right.

505
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:51,400
You've got your 10 seconds.

506
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:52,400
Or even a minute.

507
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:53,400
It makes you feel to be fair.

508
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:58,480
You innovated that Commander Colonel Blakshley, who had all that backing, was a number one

509
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,320
World War II ace, was not competent.

510
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:06,200
The official answer to his sighting when I made it public was that he was looking at

511
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:07,200
the planet Jupiter.

512
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:12,760
Now that night, the planet Jupiter, and I checked this with the government, was 366 million

513
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:13,760
miles from the Earth.

514
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:18,800
The radar that was reporting this object had a range of less than 500 miles.

515
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:23,520
Blakshley, this top ace, a great man, and terrific, was really cool.

516
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:27,320
And he got so annoyed at it, that he said some things about the people in the Air Force

517
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:28,560
that I don't think you could hear.

518
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,000
I don't think he was talking about you, because you weren't up there.

519
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,520
We will not repeat them in this program.

520
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:37,120
I'm trying to get our audience into the show because there's a lot of people out there

521
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:38,120
who want to ask questions.

522
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,280
And we're going to give them a chance to do that in a moment.

523
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,520
We'll take a break and then be back with the great debates.

524
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,320
Okay, gentlemen, down the corner here.

525
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:45,320
Would you stand up, sir?

526
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:46,320
Yes.

527
00:29:46,320 --> 00:30:07,800
Well, there was something at Crownsville, Maryland in 1957, which was supposed to fall

528
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:12,800
into the state hospital grounds after an object was seen to explode nearby.

529
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:18,920
Army intelligence came in and corded off the area, and they got this object and put

530
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:24,200
it into a sometimes kind of container, and kept taking Geiger counter checks on it.

531
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,720
And this was sent out to the right-person Air Force base.

532
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,200
First they denied the head.

533
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,600
Then they said that when they opened the container, the thing had evaporated.

534
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,240
It was not even dust left.

535
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,400
That was, in one case, it was proof of the head or something, but it didn't turn out

536
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:37,400
to be any help.

537
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:43,480
Then there's a story about the trash UFOs way down in the southwest and the small

538
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:44,480
beings that were deep frozen.

539
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,920
As far as I'm concerned, you can write that off.

540
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,120
I investigated that for two magazines years and years ago.

541
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:54,760
There's two men who were putting it out who were merely trying to make some dough.

542
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,520
There may have been something, some such thing happened, but I never found any evidence of

543
00:30:58,520 --> 00:30:59,520
it.

544
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:00,520
Hey, Colin, Colonel Colvin, are the first part?

545
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:06,160
The only sighting I know in Maryland that we got the evidence was a Nike that had been

546
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,080
launched from a local site.

547
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:13,400
And I can understand perhaps the United States Army wanting to keep that one quiet because

548
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:19,160
they started launching rockets in the city of Washington, D.C. and you can get people

549
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:20,160
excited.

550
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:27,160
That wasn't any Nike besides the chief intelligence out there of the civilian.

551
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,160
I mean, you knew him or not.

552
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,360
Anyway, he told me as he would check into it and he did and he called back and said,

553
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,360
yes, it was here, but it's there.

554
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:36,560
Gentlemen, behind you.

555
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:37,560
You stand up.

556
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:42,600
Major Keough, it only took NASA, I believe, three flights to land on the moon.

557
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:47,600
I was wondering with all these hundreds of flights of UFOs why they haven't landed and

558
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:52,120
started playing golf here or something along those lines.

559
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:57,120
Because of my honorable opponent's objections to facts and evidence here, I'm going to say

560
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,200
merely that this is a report.

561
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:05,200
There was a report that one landed out in Ohio and left a sports circle on the ground.

562
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:10,200
Over in Australia, a senior pilot on the airline and some people, other people said the same

563
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:14,880
thing and there have been dozens and dozens of those reports.

564
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,200
I know there are cases that go through the Air Force and through the outlander, so they

565
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,200
had no answer for it.

566
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,240
Well, apparently one of these things touched down or was about to touch down and the judge

567
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,640
came in and the routine thing, I mean, they scrambled or anything like that happened and

568
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,640
they got off.

569
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:37,080
There was only one that you might consider seriously down in Argentina.

570
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:43,080
A UFO was reported to have landed near a ranch house.

571
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:47,320
And one of the members of the family reported that this figure that came out looked like

572
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:53,880
a robot and then discovered that she had seen him, I got back in and off it went.

573
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,880
Well, ordinarily you'd saw that out the window.

574
00:32:55,880 --> 00:33:00,880
But the Argentine government did a long investigation and officially accepted it as true.

575
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,120
Colonel Coleman, you want to come in?

576
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:04,120
Well, I'm not sure.

577
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,120
Is this Argentina or Brazil?

578
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:07,120
Argentina.

579
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:08,120
Argentina.

580
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,120
I'm not acquainted with that particular sign.

581
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:16,120
Oh, we analyzed, we had evidence from Brazil and that checked out to be a very high grade

582
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,120
of man-made magnesium.

583
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,120
Oh, I know that kid.

584
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,120
Gentlemen of the checkered jacket, would you stand up, sir?

585
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:25,120
Yes, Colonel Coleman.

586
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:26,120
Yes, sir.

587
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:27,620
You mentioned photographic evidence.

588
00:33:27,700 --> 00:33:31,700
We had photographs taken of a UFO in the Rocky Mountains.

589
00:33:31,700 --> 00:33:35,700
There's one taken by a French military pilot over France.

590
00:33:35,700 --> 00:33:39,700
The official photographs released by the President of Brazil.

591
00:33:39,700 --> 00:33:41,700
And you say you've chased a UFO.

592
00:33:41,700 --> 00:33:42,700
Is there a UFO?

593
00:33:42,700 --> 00:33:44,700
You'd rather know that UFOs.

594
00:33:44,700 --> 00:33:46,700
Certainly there are unidentified flying objects.

595
00:33:46,700 --> 00:33:47,700
Thank you.

596
00:33:47,700 --> 00:33:49,700
And that's exactly what they are, unidentified.

597
00:33:49,700 --> 00:33:53,700
But that doesn't mean they come from Bernard Starr, Alpha Centauri.

598
00:33:53,700 --> 00:33:55,700
You see, you've got to look at it this way.

599
00:33:55,780 --> 00:34:00,780
How long would it take, for instance, if they're coming from Andromeda?

600
00:34:00,780 --> 00:34:02,780
Even with the time dilation theory.

601
00:34:02,780 --> 00:34:07,880
A round trip from here to Andromeda and back is still going to take, if you can travel

602
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:13,440
at warp velocities, it's going to take 3,000 Earth years or longer.

603
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,940
Ship time will be much less than that if you believe in the time dilation theory.

604
00:34:17,940 --> 00:34:19,940
So it's okay for that.

605
00:34:19,940 --> 00:34:21,940
I'm just interested in down here in Earth.

606
00:34:22,180 --> 00:34:25,180
Let me point out the debate is that they come from outer space.

607
00:34:25,180 --> 00:34:28,180
Note that there are not a lot of things flying up in the air we can't identify.

608
00:34:28,180 --> 00:34:31,680
There are rocks and there are rockets and there's meteors and everything else.

609
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,680
The argument is about where they come from.

610
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,680
Question over here, General, one of the viewers.

611
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:42,680
Major Keo, you forwarded in your evidence two photographs only.

612
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,680
We heard from the audience here that there have been several more.

613
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,680
It is also possible to photograph a mirage.

614
00:34:49,420 --> 00:34:54,420
Would it not be reasonable conjecture to say as all the things that you've mentioned,

615
00:34:54,420 --> 00:34:59,920
the spherical shapes or the disc shape with the dome and the press releases have always

616
00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:05,920
been the same and people coming off are a robot type or similar to ourselves.

617
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:11,920
When, for instance, if you go out to the warmer planets, we as carbonaceous-based people

618
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,920
could not exist, but a silicon man could, he need not look like we do.

619
00:35:16,660 --> 00:35:21,660
So would it not be unreasonable to expect that these photographs are in fact mirages?

620
00:35:21,660 --> 00:35:24,660
Well, I didn't say there weren't more photographs.

621
00:35:24,660 --> 00:35:30,160
There was some up in the Northwest and there was a big argument about there were supposed

622
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,160
to be reflections off of a two-judge wing that flew in over there and then that was

623
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,160
thrown out and back and forth.

624
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:41,160
But the question about the types of beings, that's one of the big points.

625
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:45,160
If the thing is that serious, we all don't know what kind of beings are involved.

626
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:51,400
In case they do lie in here, whether if they're humanoid, it might not be so hard to take them.

627
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,400
And if they weren't, it could be very frightening.

628
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:59,400
Like the pictures of the beings that Betty and Barney Hill are supposed to have seen.

629
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,400
I don't know whether you know about that, but they're very...

630
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,400
Well, let me...the question was, could these pictures not be pictures of mirages?

631
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:07,400
You have seen mirages in the air.

632
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:09,400
Well, I've seen mirages, yes.

633
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,400
Between one ground and sea and the other two.

634
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:12,400
That was the question.

635
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,640
I didn't understand it.

636
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,640
I just remembered that.

637
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,640
Well, may I say a word about mirages?

638
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,640
There are two types, superior and inferior.

639
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:28,640
The inferior mirages are when you see a lake and the superior mirages are like when you see a whole building floating up in the air.

640
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:33,640
We have outstanding photographs, particularly of superior mirages that are quite misleading.

641
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:39,640
And if you really want to see some mirages, get up to the northern circle and it'll scare the daylights out of you.

642
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,880
Gentlemen up here in the Turtle Lake Square, would you stand up please, sir?

643
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:44,880
That's fine.

644
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:51,880
If you don't believe that these are UFOs from outer space, where do you believe they come from?

645
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:53,880
What is your theory about it?

646
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:55,880
You're suggesting the good.

647
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:57,880
If I don't believe...

648
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,880
That they are, in fact, from outer space, where do you believe they are from?

649
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,880
Well, if you don't believe they're from outer space, where do they come from?

650
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:06,880
In your belief.

651
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:11,120
Okay, fly. Unidentified flying objects. Let's go back again.

652
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,120
It's an object that's flying that remains unidentified.

653
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,120
There are so many different answers.

654
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:26,120
Mirages, astronomical phenomena, meteorological phenomena, decayed satellites, meteorites, bolides, fireballs, sun-dogs, dust devils.

655
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,120
And you could go on and on.

656
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,120
There are so many other possibilities.

657
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:34,120
I'm not saying that they don't exist, as I said in the beginning.

658
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,360
You cannot prove a negative proposition.

659
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,360
So what is your private theory?

660
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:44,360
My private theory is that I would hope there is extraterrestrial life.

661
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,360
I would hate to have the responsibility for this whole universe.

662
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,360
And I would hope you would share that with me.

663
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:56,360
But we have no evidence. None. None and I owe it to.

664
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,360
What would you...

665
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,360
I would have to do it on the basis of faith.

666
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:05,360
I'm a deeper religious man and I prefer to put all of my faith in a living God.

667
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,360
What would you like to see as evidence?

668
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,360
If you say, okay, now if this event happened, now I would be...

669
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,360
That's another question.

670
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,360
What would satisfy, say, the scientific community?

671
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,360
And that's where this investigation really ought to be.

672
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,360
Right now I'm going to allow you to put that out as part of your summing up,

673
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,360
because we must go to the summing up in order the audience can vote.

674
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,360
We'll do that in a moment. First, these messages.

675
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:34,360
Each of our debaters has exactly 45 seconds to sum up his points.

676
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,360
And we start with Major Kehoe, 45.

677
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:43,360
You did not mention the Jan. 146 secrecy order, which was fed out by the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

678
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:48,360
And this specifically invokes the espionage law with penalties of up to five years in prison

679
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:56,360
and $10,000 fine, or both, for revealing a UFO report that is sent over the CIRVIS transmission system.

680
00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:01,360
And they have a photocopy of it. And the Joint Chiefs of Staff have agreed that is correct.

681
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:05,360
The AIAA, which is the largest aerospace organization in the world,

682
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:10,360
American Institute of Astronautics and Aeronautics has rejected the Connors report.

683
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:18,360
They reject the Air Force report, and they call for a new full, unbiased investigation, free of military control.

684
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:22,360
Now, if all of the thousands of witnesses that we have, policy numbers are wrong, God save us.

685
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:23,360
Thank you, Mary.

686
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:24,360
Okay, I'll turn it over.

687
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,360
45 seconds for Colonel Coleman.

688
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:31,360
The Jan. F. Document is based upon the United States Code.

689
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:37,360
This is a document that says all pilots, ship captains, and others in official status

690
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:44,360
will report any unidentified object, whether it's on the land, on or under the sea, or in the air.

691
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:49,360
And that is a law that's been on the books a long, long time and was here before the flying saucer came.

692
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:51,360
Now, sum up is this.

693
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:52,360
Present your evidence.

694
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:53,360
There is none.

695
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,360
Photographs will not do alone.

696
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:57,360
We must have evidence.

697
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,360
Otherwise, you're going to have to accept this proposition on faith and faith alone.

698
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:02,360
I don't have faith.

699
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:03,360
Thank you, gentlemen.

700
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,360
We're now going to let the audience vote.

701
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:11,360
At the beginning of the program, 190 people were on Major Keoh's side in the affirmative,

702
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,360
and 32 were for the negative.

703
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,360
30 people have moved over to the negative.

704
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:23,360
So it is now 160 to 62 rather than 190 to 32.

705
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,360
So we award the debate to Colonel Coleman.

706
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:27,360
Congratulations, Colonel.

707
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,360
Thank you.

708
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:30,360
Thank you.

709
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:36,360
Time to go.

710
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,360
We'll be back once again next week when we'll stage the great debate.

711
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:40,360
I hope you'll be watching.

712
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:41,360
See you then.

713
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:44,360
Thank you.

714
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:45,360
Thank you.

715
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:46,360
Thank you.

716
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,360
Tonight's subject was resolved that unidentified flying objects from outer space exist.

717
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:02,360
Our debaters were Major Donald Keoh for the affirmative and Colonel William Coleman for the negative.

718
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:07,360
Guests on the great debate stay at the Hyatt Region State, Toronto's most exciting hotel.

719
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,360
I'm Werner Cowan.

720
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:15,360
If you were in Toronto on a Thursday evening, I would like tickets to the great debate right to the great debate.

721
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,360
Box 6666, Don Mills Post Office, Ontario.